{"id":94404,"date":"2025-01-20T13:12:29","date_gmt":"2025-01-20T07:42:29","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/vwo.com\/blog\/?p=94404"},"modified":"2025-01-20T13:12:34","modified_gmt":"2025-01-20T07:42:34","slug":"phillip-wang-interview","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/vwo.com\/blog\/phillip-wang-interview\/","title":{"rendered":"Experimentation Fuels Innovation, and Failure Is Key to the Process"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

As 2025 begins, many businesses set experimentation as their top goal. The challenge is turning this resolution into actionable, sustained progress.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It’s easy to start strong, but running full-fledged optimization campaigns is anything but straight-forward. The key to lasting success lies in perseverance. And when the inevitable roadblocks hit, you don\u2019t have to figure it all out on your own. That\u2019s where our CRO Perspectives series comes in. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

We bring you insights from experts who have been in the trenches, sharing their stories, answering your toughest questions, and inspiring you to keep pushing forward.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In the twelfth installment of CRO Perspectives<\/em>, we feature an exclusive interview with Phillip Wang, Head of eCommerce, APAC at Kaspersky, who shares his journey and valuable advice on how to approach experimentation effectively for lasting results. <\/p>\n\n\n

\n
\"Phillip<\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n

Leader:<\/strong> Phillip Wang<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Role:<\/strong> Head of eCommerce, APAC, Kaspersky<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Location: <\/strong>China<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Speaks about:<\/strong> Customer Experience \u2022 eCommerce \u2022 Digital Growth \u2022 Analytics \u2022 Strategy  <\/p>\n\n\n

Why should you read this interview?<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n

Phillip Wang\u2019s journey in the marketing industry spans over a decade, with extensive experience working at leading companies in China. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

For the past four years, he has been with Kaspersky, a global leader in cybersecurity, where he progressed from a Conversion Optimization Manager to his current role as Head of eCommerce, APAC. In this capacity, he drives digital transformation and growth strategy for the company across markets in South East Asia, Greater China, and Korea. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

With his knowledge of CRO and eCommerce, Phillip explains important CRO segments that will guide you toward effective optimization and better outcomes.<\/p>\n\n\n

Discovering key insights from Phillip’s journey into CRO<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n

My entry into CRO began with the optimization of affiliate landing pages and gradually expanded to include other key touchpoints in the customer experience. From email messaging to website flow to shipping product features, being the only person with “optimization” in their title in a newly funded tech start-up definitely offered me a range of responsibilities. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

While nothing replaces getting your hands dirty to quickly build up a memory of what works and what doesn\u2019t, immersion in the craft through other ways also helped me immensely: <\/p>\n\n\n

Read everything<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n

CXL, Baymard, Making Websites Win<\/em>\u2014improve your understanding by devouring any relevant resource you can. You\u2019ll be learning from experts who have already gone through what you\u2019re trying to do now. Sometimes you\u2019ll need a book, not just a 5-minute article, to uncover the main message with enough depth to truly understand it. <\/p>\n\n\n

Explore the specialisms within CRO<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n

UX, data analytics, digital marketing, consumer psychology\u2014each deserves independent study, which can feel overwhelming. Instead, find the area that aligns with your natural aptitude and professional interest. For the most part, it\u2019s enough to understand each domain\u2019s role in the optimization of the customer experience and become adept at collaborating with subject-matter experts towards that end goal. <\/p>\n\n\n

Learn CRO heuristic frameworks<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n

Tools like LIFT, Lever, or the Conversion Sequence Heuristic are helpful to move from point A to B without getting stuck in analysis paralysis. They provide a fresh lens to assess problems quickly, but you still need the knowledge from other business areas (like the specialisms mentioned above) to use them effectively. Don\u2019t do it alone\u2014these frameworks work best as collaborative exercises. <\/p>\n\n\n

Prioritize methodology and process<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n

Without a deliberate approach to optimization, you\u2019ll often feel like you\u2019re swimming in the deep end. Reflect on the steps that make up your approach as well as what can be improved. Improving clarity around your system of operations will help in the long-run, not least to demystify the work involved in CRO for your team at large, but also as you scale and seek stakeholder buy-in.<\/p>\n\n\n

Steady your fear of failure<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n

Fear inhibits change, which in CRO could mean staying within the comfort zone of button color or hero image testing to avoid tarnishing a “winning” streak.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n

It\u2019s natural to feel like each experiment reflects on your abilities, but real learning and innovation come through experimentation\u2014and failure is a vital part of that process.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n

\"Philip's<\/figure>\n\n\n

Building an in-house experimentation team<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n

An important consideration when establishing an in-house experimentation team is, of course, the structure of the team itself. It\u2019s rare to find someone who has deep expertise across statistics, product design, web development… the list goes on, and it would also be unfair to expect all of this from one (super) human being. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

However, finding someone with a strong growth mindset is much more attainable. CRO is a cross-disciplinary field, so it\u2019s important to recruit people who understand this and are passionate about development. For your first hire, look for someone with experience using data to drive business impact and with a strong focus on the customer\u2019s perspective\u2014that\u2019s a winner.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

By now, we\u2019ve all seen the data showing that companies with well-executed online experimentation programs outperform those that don\u2019t. A key, often overlooked detail is the ‘well-executed’ part\u2014simply launching experiments without impactful results or with measurement issues won\u2019t get you ahead.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

To position yourself for success, consider some of these questions: <\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u25cf What profiles will we prioritize for hiring? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u25cf Should the team be centralized or decentralized? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u25cf How will this team complement adjacent functions? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u25cf What\u2019s our plan for cross-functional collaboration? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u25cf How do we secure top management buy-in? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u25cf What is our current\/future MarTech stack? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u25cf Is our measurement and tracking reliable? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u25cf What internal training should we provide? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u25cf How is experimentation viewed within the company? <\/p>\n\n\n

\n
\"Building<\/figure><\/div>\n\n

Planning CRO tests that boost revenue and conversions<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n

We should first note that the level of urgency to ‘move the needle’ will affect your execution. Are we operating under calmer BAU (Business As Usual) times, or are these all-hands-on-deck times?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Depending on the state of the business, your approach to optimization should adapt\u2014not just in terms of the level of effort or risk tied to each approach, but also the communication required with stakeholders. Think of low contrast (“to learn”) versus high contrast (“to earn”) experimental design: these concepts aren\u2019t mutually exclusive, but the complexity of a solution will impact everything from operations to stakeholder expectations. Ideally, a balance between the two helps create a more strategic and robust roadmap.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n

Another framework that complements roadmap planning is: ‘Quality x Quantity.’ From a high-level perspective, the success of your experimentation roadmap depends on how well you can execute impactful tests (quality) and multiples of them (quantity). With your organization in mind, working backwards from both levers will help you determine the steps you need to follow (and continuously improve on) to maintain your critical outputs: customer-centered insights that fuel your experiments and intentional testing velocity.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n

To truly ‘move the needle,’ a strong focus on the roadmap is necessary, as it\u2019s clear you\u2019ll need a series of tests, not just one, to achieve it. Thinking about how to sequence testing to take advantage of internal resource capacity (research, design, development teams, etc.) while keeping the concepts mentioned above in mind will support this goal.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Pro Tip!<\/strong>

Build a robust pipeline of AI-generated optimization ideas with VWO Copilot<\/a>. It generates tailored campaign ideas aligned with your optimization goals. You can add them directly to your hypothesis bank, ensuring a continuous pipeline of testing opportunities.<\/p><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div>\n\n\n

Building a collaborative vision for growth and experimentation<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n

Recognizing that we don\u2019t have all the answers is an important starting point. It\u2019s crucial as we strive to apply the scientific method toward problem discovery, business growth, and digital transformation at large, while keeping ourselves grounded with this sometimes lofty mission.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Knowing that we can\u2019t rely on individual experience alone to guide us with critical business decisions, and that we must go back to the basics by creating our own data, is a key part of this too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The end result is hopefully a more nuanced view of experimentation as we carry out our day-to-day, helping us think beyond singular, isolated testing and instead become proponents of change and growth within the business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Opening up this discussion with the team to collaboratively build out a shared vision also grounds our efforts on purpose and aligns everyone on the bigger picture.<\/p>\n\n\n

Turning a challenging problem into a meaningful impact<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n

A critical server problem meant we had to forgo an evolutionary design approach and instead replace a locally adapted website with a radically different, generic template\u2014without testing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Unsurprisingly, performance dropped, and pressure was high.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Not defaulting to a solution-first response but investing time and effort in diagnosis to get beyond surface-level assumptions is CRO 101, and this approach saved us time, effort, and impact in the long run. By first building a decent understanding of the problem, we were able to effectively treat it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

By consolidating user findings from multiple research methods\u2014web analytics (“what and where is the problem?”), behavioral analytics and preference testing (“why is it a problem?”), as well as guidance from behavioral economics (choice architecture)\u2014we could identify the root of the issue and take corrective action.<\/p>\n\n\n

\n
\"Customer<\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n

Spending time (and remaining calm) to define the scope of the issue was helpful, especially in the face of mounting pressure. This improved clarity and confidence in our decision-making, as well as enabled easier development of hypotheses to address the central problem and, thus, create meaningful impact.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Sometimes quick decisions and intuition are necessary, but a well-informed approach pays off when navigating complex situations.<\/p>\n\n\n

Winning stakeholder buy-in for CRO<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n

When engaging with stakeholders, are you communicating with the mindset that you are The Expert<\/em>, or are you entering that conversation with an open mind? Do both parties fully understand each other\u2019s positions, or is the conversation built on misaligned foundations?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n

I like the simple expression, ‘strong opinions, loosely held,’ as it underscores how we should do our due diligence but also welcome and respect counterarguments. This way of approaching stakeholder alignment helps set the tone in communicating with both authorities (based on substance) while still remaining approachable.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n

More specific to CRO, another principle I value is “show, don\u2019t tell.”<\/em> A 50% conversion rate uplift or a 20% RPV uplift all sound amazing and, without proper context, equally implausible. Rather than just telling your winning numbers to an audience, walk them through it: show your stakeholders the insight that led to the win. This could be the new way you planned your roadmap, designed your experiment, collaborated across functions, triangulated your research, or something else.<\/p>\n\n\n

\n
\"Stakeholder<\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n

In my experience, this can carry far more weight in your professional relationships since you are now inviting stakeholders into the conversation and making CRO relevant to them, rather than just reading off a test results report.<\/p>\n\n\n

Scaling experimentation efforts<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n

Start small and prove your value. Value doesn\u2019t need to equal money in the bank\u2014at least not immediately. It could be introducing a new way of thinking, improving problem-solving approaches, or deepening customer understanding.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But always think: how can this be substantiated? How can I connect this back to top business priorities that my manager\u2014and my manager\u2019s manager\u2014care about? This is especially critical when full buy-in is still lacking.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Even if the team is still getting familiar with CRO, there should always be a clear takeaway from the investment (time, effort, money…) you put into your program. Reflect on it and demonstrate your role\u2014what else can be optimized? Whether it\u2019s in program operations, hypothesis development, communication of learnings, etc.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n

Only through persistent focus on generating value (learnings, ROI, culture…) will you naturally grow towards building a stronger team and experimentation program.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n

Conclusion<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n

We hope Phillip’s answers provided valuable takeaways and sparked new ideas for your CRO journey. A big thanks to him for offering thoughtful, in-depth insights on each topic. Now, it\u2019s up to you to translate these insights into action. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

With focus, the right methods, and proven frameworks, progress is within reach. And if you\u2019re looking for a platform to scale your efforts or kickstart your journey, our team is ready to support you\u2014connect with us<\/a> today.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

As 2025 begins, many businesses set experimentation as their top goal. The challenge is turning this resolution into actionable, sustained progress. It’s easy to start strong, but running full-fledged optimization campaigns is anything but straight-forward. The key to lasting success lies in perseverance. And when the inevitable roadblocks hit, you don\u2019t have to figure it…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":814,"featured_media":94405,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"post_read_time":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[10686,1],"tags":[],"hashtags":[],"feature":[10540,10678],"industry-type":[],"product":[],"role":[],"region":[10690],"class_list":["post-94404","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-expert-interviews","category-unlisted","feature-a-b-testing","feature-behavior-analytics"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nExperimentation Fuels Innovation, and Failure Is Key to the Process: Insights from Phillip Wang | CRO Perspectives<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Learn from Phillip Wang on building an in-house experimentation team, engaging stakeholders, aligning business objectives with CRO tests, and more in our latest CRO 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